This week, the two Dans welcome their Rugby hero Jonny Wilkinson to the pod. You will be hard pressed to find a more eloquent, thoughtful and deep thinking sportsman than Jonny.

In this episode, we discuss:
- Dan B's and Jonny's French grammar tips
- Reputation from youngster to oldie
- Jonny's bizarre sense of humour
- Jonny's 3 personality archetypes: warrior, saviour & martyr
- Finding balance in life and sport: Jonny discusses how the constant search for balance — between effort and relaxation, discipline and freedom — has shaped his life and career
- Embracing vulnerability and humiliation as powerful tools for growth, both on and off the rugby field
- Reframing success: rather than being defined by his 2003 World Cup success, Jonny emphasises focusing on the present and future, seeing past glories as one part of an ongoing journey
- Jonny shares his thoughts on pressure, highlighting that it’s often a mental construct we can choose to engage with or let go of

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• Podcast music: Tamsin Waley-Cohen's Mendelssohn's violin concerto